Moped Riders Association

[Tab]

Actually, my idea of a cheap asian hummer might not be exactly what everyone else is thinking.

[JD]

I know a sweetie named Yoko who only gives lip service....

jd

[sixtoeightfeet]

Yeah, It is fun to post a rhetorical question and sit back and watch what happens. A really good question in the future might be: Is there any truth to the rumor that Puch is back in business? How many replies might that generate?

[mountainmoped]

Went on a tour of NP Motorsports today--they are serious, they are here to stay and they have a great product line. The parts support is there. They have a great crotch rocket--water cooled, six speed, disc brakes, 50cc with 80 cc kit available and a great price. Gotta have one for Suches. Hope it stops better on wet grass than the Tomos. Picked up a couple of bikes. Will post pix of the whole operation soon--am on a dial up modem now.

[Zippy]

I know they are not peds but it might be germane to this discussion. Piaggio for some reason is blowing out the LT50s and LT150s "03" models.
LT150s for $2199, that's $1200 off. http://www.rockridgetwowheels.com/

I think these inexpensive (or cheap) scooters, nopeds and mopeds from China on EBay are having a real impact.

Japan did it in the late 70s and early 80s and it was Bye bye European mopeds. Honda brought in mopeds like the PA50 Hobbit with an ignition key, turn signals and CDI and Dealership Service for about $300. That was the end for Puch as an entity. When the Japanese bikes moved in to motrocycles it damn near cratered Harley.

Wonder why American jobs are going "offshore". Everybody wants it cheap, good and they want it right now.

If gas prices keep increasing, Look for these Chinese bikes coming soon to a Walmart near you.

[JD]

[Mope Head]

[jswift]

I don't know what to say except I don't know. Tomos still makes a quality product (my rant about '08 and certain parts notwithstanding) but China and the siren song of cheap parts has killed many a manufacturer. Tomos needs to get aggressive and promote the strong points. Or maybe not. Sales may be enough for profit without advertising, and spending money on ads may be cost negative. Anyway, China sucks. The ratio of quality is inverse to the amount of china products. Hopefully Tomos knows that. A cheap electric bike with pedals is not a moped. A Chinese gas scooter is not a moped. A moped is: 49 cc less than 2 BHP and pedals for auxiliary power, not exceeding 30 mph in most cases. Who else can drop ship a vehicle that is capable of 10,000 miles or more without major repair for ~1500.00 USD? China my a**! TOMOS FTW. It might be time for TOMOS to bypass the dealer network. Sorry Steve, Myron etc. Imagine TOMOS in Wally World. Or TARGET.

[Tab]

Tomos survives due to the dealer network and the ability for the dealers to get parts and fix bikes. Target isn't going to have an aisle just for Tomos parts... Plus...I have a feeling that a chain store might put more of a mark-up on the bikes than some of the dealers.

[JD]

Given the current focus on gas prices and the PR scares about $4 gas prices this summer, this might be the ideal time for Tomos to make an investment in national advertising. It wouldn't be cheap, but there may never be a better time to increase awareness about the advantages of mopeds and exploit the panic.

Then, in 20 years, our kids will be buying 20-year-old mopeds with 200 miles on them at garage sales, remnants from the 2008 moped sale surge. LOL!

jdl

[pehuskey]

It would be nice if any of these companies had the kind of resources or mindset necessary to do a really good advertising push.

Not something that would relegate mopeds and scooters to a good alternative for kids going to school until they are old enough to handle a "real" vehicle. Not something that presents them as some days "milk run" toy. I would like to see a campaign that would show them to be an economical and practical form of most days transportation. A way to save money while injecting some fun into one of the more unpleasant parts of the day.

It wouldn't be easy. It is possible though. Look back at the breakthrough that Honda made with the "Nicest People" campaign.
American cultures strong point has never been minimalism, but at $4/gal or higher it is much less of a minimalist product.

[slipperygrip]

I will stick with Tomos.Why???One reason is parts.Can you still get parts for an A3.Try getting parts in 10 years for one of these 10 year old chinese scooters or moped that are designed to use and throw away.The europeon and japanese bikes are designed to last and proven over and over.SO why gamble with the the unknown??I see Tomos as a big cost savings.More up front but a big cost savings in the future.Why be penny wise dollar foolish??If I have to replace it often there no savings and its lots more expensive in the long run..

I do see a problem with Tomos dealer network.Some states don't even have a dealership.Maybe they should target big cites??Advertising I think would help if not too much was spent.

What I am amazed at is how these chinese scooters and mopeds got so many places and flooded the market without much advertising.Maybe this is where Tomos should start.They should also get a network of dealers in each state.

Just some thoughts,,,,Wayne

[JD]

One of the manifestations of Internet commerce is that it tends to squeeze the margin out of the sales price, and eliminates the spread necessary to keep "brick and mortar" outlets and "middlemen" profitable.

For some goods and services, this isn't a bad thing. I can buy the same ink for my printer online or at a store. Guess who is cheaper? And, unless timing is critical, the middleman store adds no value to the transaction.

On the other hand, if I'm buying a furnace I want a middleman. I need someone else to install the thing, and I want someone who will provide support over its life.

The problem comes when people make a poor assessment of the need for middleman support. If you think a moped or scooter is a commodity, then you'll buy it on the Internet without thinking about long-term support. If you recognize the need for support, you'll look for a dealer. Since so many current scooter buyers are newbies to the market, they underestimate the need for dealership support, and they go the Chinese scooters on the Internet to get the lowest price. When (if?) they become repeat buyers, they're more likely to think about the mistakes they made the first time around, and look for a dealer. But I don't think there are enough of those people around to support a strong dealership organization.

And therein likes the problem...and the reason not many dealers can survive. Mopeds and scooters are still gimmicks and toys to most people, and they purchase them as such. And I don't think is likely to change because this form of transportation will never become overwhelmingly popular in the U.S. (And I wish I were wrong.)

At least that's my opinion, and I'm stickin' with it. (Until someone else demonstrates otherwise.) LOL!

jd

[pehuskey]

I'm totally with JD on this.

There isn't a company in a position to spend the kind of money it would take to successfully brand the scooter or moped as anything other than it is right now.

Somehow, the vintage vespa stuff has caught a wave of classic style. Maybe mopeds will follow.

[jswift]

I see it this way. We are in 1978 as far as the economy, and mopeds and etc. This stuff runs in cycles. So apply 1978 to 2008 and act accordingly. Gas has gone up fitty cents a gallon in less than 2 weeks. All I know is that if gas is 5 dollars a gallon, I can go 100 miles for 5 dollars. Not a real problem, when you consider that there is no insurance and no tag for a moped here. SUV at 20 MPG costs 25 dollars just to get to work. I crap on car owners you suck. HA HA HA